Why the transfer to the University of Amsterdam (UvA)?
'I wasn't looking for it. Sometimes something comes your way – and maybe that's why I started the conversation with the UvA with an open mind and without expectations. So: the opportunity came along, eventually an opportunity I didn't want to miss out on. Just as I chose the UT twice with full conviction, the choice now fell on the UvA.'
What makes the UvA's offer so attractive?
'It's a completely different university, but I like a steep learning curve. The UvA is different in scale, different in the breadth of disciplines and different in its philosophy. It is also a university in the city where I live, so I can cycle to work for a change. The travel distance was never a decisive factor, I never experienced that as a problem in the past five years. I thought about it: in less than two weeks I will be 59 years old. Count it out and you know that you have one more big administrative job in the public sector ahead of you. As a result, the timing is fairly perfect, as far as that can be timed. Because the opportunity simply arose.'
When announcing your farewell on LinkedIn, you quote a poem by Konstantinos Kavafis: 'As you set out for Ithaka, hope that your road is a long one, full of adventure, full of discovery.' What does that poem symbolize to you?
'It's a poem that I've been carrying with me for twenty years. In the end, it's about the journey, rather than the destination. The UT has been a wonderful and fantastic part of my journey. Twice, just like Amsterdam, by the way. That journey is now continuing. Both Twente and Amsterdam have been a bit of my Ithakas: ‘And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you. Wise as you will have become, so full of experience, you’ll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.’
The many reactions were also striking...
'I was caught off guard. It is also nice that certain things I have been committed to in recent years have been recognized, such as Bram Nauta's comment in Tubantia: that I could communicate with the bigwigs in The Hague and with the employees on the work floor. I have always tried to make it a team internally at the UT and invested a lot in collaboration with other institutions and partners in the region. I was certainly not looking for recognition, but the reactions did a lot to me.'
Just before the announcement of your departure, the coalition agreement was presented. How do you view that?
'That agreement gives hope. I am cautiously optimistic. I recognize choices that are important for our sector: wanting to reverse the budget cuts and nuance the language policy in study programmes. At the same time: the devil is in the details. We have to see how quickly and in what way the cuts are reversed, that does not happen overnight. And what UNL chairman Caspar van den Berg warned about is also true: as a sector, we had to deal with changing policies. A new, calmer course would be a relief for the entire sector. Because the problems are not gone yet; as universities, we have to show that we matter to society. That assignment is still there, unchanged.'
You came back to UT in the middle of the corona crisis, and soon afterwards the necessary financial challenges followed, even resulting in reorganisations. How will you feel about saying goodbye?
'I wouldn't say that we went from crisis to crisis, but I don't deny that it was tough. At the same time, this is the moment that we have had the deepest valley. There is a positive budget again, the institutional plan is coming up and I am curious who will be the next education minister. The time for sowing is behind us – especially if you look at collaborations in the region. In a way, it's a pity that I don't experience that time of harvesting up close, but of course I'm going to follow it closely.
For now, I have to let it all sink in. I leave something beautiful behind here and am moving towards something beautiful. The Kyklops and the Laistrygons, the furious Poseidon, I'm going to experience it all – just like Odysseus and his Ithaka.'
